Well I had a fun afternoon! A good friend of mine sent me a link to a blog that asks 40 questions of Christians who are supportive of marriage equality.
She asked me if I might have a chance to answer them. Since I’m currently on a
spiritual renewal leave, I had time to fill and so I tackled the list today.
Now, I know that some of you are kind of done talking about all
this. If you are, then by all means stop reading right now. That’s completely
cool with me. I get it. Plus, this is really, really long so you may get a bit
bored by the end. I had to look up “TLDR” but now that I know what it means I
use it all the time.
However, I actually found that these questions were really pretty
good ways to kind of sharpen my own beliefs. And at the end of the list, I have
added ten questions of my own, that I think ought to be answered as well.
And so, for your reading pleasure, I offer my answers to those 40
questions. Here we go:
1. How long have you believed that gay marriage
is something to be celebrated?
Since my Junior year of High School.
2. What Bible verses led you to change your
mind?
I never really changed my mind. Or to be precise, I never believed
gay marriage was not something to be celebrated. I just never thought about it, and then when I did, it was fine.
3. How would you make a positive case from
Scripture that sexual activity between two persons of the same sex is a
blessing to be celebrated?
I wouldn’t. Every example of sexual activity between two persons
of the same gender in Scripture is either rape, child abuse, or idolatry. A
loving, respectful, grace-filled relationship between two adults of the same
gender is never described in the Bible.
4. What verses would you use to show that a
marriage between two persons of the same sex can adequately depict Christ and
the church?
I wish I could ask you, before I answer, why you believe this is
an important enough question to be #4 on your list. I’ll go ahead and assume
that you are referring to Ephesians 5, which many interpret as you do, that a
marriage is supposed to “depict” the relationship between Christ and the
church. That interpretation is all well and good (though it isn’t the one I
make - I have some serious questions about the power dynamic implied), and yet
it really has no implication on same-sex marriages, does it? That
interpretation is instructive for husbands and wives. It says to them, “Your
marriage is supposed to look like Christ and the church.”
Since there was no such thing as marriage between two people of
the same gender in Paul’s day, as there is in America today, it hardly makes
sense that he would use it as a depiction of Christ and the church, does it?
5. Do you think Jesus would have been okay with
homosexual behavior between consenting adults in a committed relationship?
Yes.
6. If so, why did he reassert the Genesis
definition of marriage as being one man and one woman?
He quoted Genesis in order to respond to a question about divorce.
In Genesis, the quote is, “Therefore a man leaves his father and
his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh.” It starts with “therefore”
because it is preceded by God taking a rib out of the man in order to create
the woman. There are many various interpretations of this passage, including the
one you have implied in your question. It won’t surprise you, probably, to
learn that I do not interpret this passage as a “Genesis definition of
marriage.” I interpret it as a theological statement about the unity of
humanity.
7. When Jesus spoke against porneia what sins do
you think he was forbidding?
He was forbidding sexual immorality.
8. If some homosexual behavior is acceptable,
how do you understand the sinful “exchange” Paul highlights in Romans 1?
Paul is condemning the idolatry of the people, who have forgotten
that God ought to be first and foremost in their lives. Instead, they are
consumed with passion for each other, worship of the creature rather than the
creator, envy, gossip, boastfulness, and so on. Chapter one of Romans sets the
stage for the entire book, which is a powerful and vivid letter about sin and
salvation. The “degrading,” “unnatural,” and “shameless” acts of passion that
are condemned here are not specifically defined (Paul leaves the specifics to our
own interpretation), but I for one am glad that Paul condemns them. All people
should remember that God is, was, and always will be at the center of our
relationships.
9. Do you believe that passages like 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Revelation 21:8 teach that
sexual immorality can keep you out of heaven?
So, by “keep you out of heaven,” you mean “inherit the kingdom of
God,” right? That’s what 1 Corinthians says. And Revelation 21 is a completely
different kind of passage than 1 Corinthians 6, so it is really rather peculiar
that you group them together like this. We probably mean different things when
we are talking about the kingdom of God or “heaven,” I imagine. You probably
mean something like “where you go when you die” and I mean something more like
“as intimate a relationship with God as is possible.” And so I can
unequivocally say that sexual immorality keeps you out of heaven, if we mean it
interferes with your relationship with God.
As to what happens when you die, well none of us truly knows that,
do we? If we claim to, we are getting really close to saying that we know the
mind of God, which I am definitely not wanting to do!
10. What sexual sins do you think they were
referring to?
In my study of the Greek text, I understand the 1 Corinthians 6:9
passage (and 1 Timothy 1:10) as referring to adult men who hire young boys for
sex. In other words, child abuse. I also understand that not everyone
interprets this verse the same way, but that’s mine. And further, it should be
noted that it is very difficult to translate the two words in question, arsenokoites
and malakos. Their translations have observably evolved over time. In
short, no matter what you think these two verses really refer to, you are
making an interpretation.
11. As you think about the long history of the
church and the near universal disapproval of same-sex sexual activity, what do
you think you understand about the Bible that Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, and
Luther failed to grasp?
Nothing. Those dudes were smart! Just because I understand and
interpret it differently doesn’t mean that anyone “failed to grasp” the
meaning. It just means we have different perspectives. In the case of the
theologians you mention, our perspectives are different not only by the places
where we live(d), but the distance of hundreds of years. So it kind of just
makes sense that we would see things differently.
12. What arguments would you use to explain to
Christians in Africa, Asia, and South America that their understanding of
homosexuality is biblically incorrect and your new understanding of
homosexuality is not culturally conditioned?
Again with the “incorrect” language. Why are you so concerned with
“correct” and “incorrect” and “failed to grasp.” It seems to be very important
to you that you know who is “right” and “wrong” rather than a simple
acknowledgement of mystery and uncertainty. And I’m not entirely sure where
this entire question is coming from, in the first place. Why would I explain my
understanding differently to someone from Africa, Asia, or South America? I
would explain it the same way I would to someone from my hometown.
13. Do you think Hillary Clinton and Barack
Obama were motivated by personal animus and bigotry when they, for almost all
of their lives, defined marriage as a covenant relationship between one man and
one woman?
No.
14. Do you think children do best with a mother
and a father?
Most of the time, yes, although your question is poorly worded. Do
you mean “as opposed to a single parent” or “as opposed to a same-sex couple.”
Regardless, there cannot be a blanket rule that automatically applies to all
families. Some of our foster kids have come from a home with both a mother and
father, and it would be very difficult to make the case that the presence of a
mom and dad automatically made their life better. And some of the most amazing
kids I know were raised by a single parent.
15. If not, what research would you point to in
support of that conclusion?
N/A
16. If yes, does the church or the state have
any role to play in promoting or privileging the arrangement that puts children
with a mom and a dad?
There are simply not enough people who feel called to provide
foster/adoptive care to even consider that question. Our counties are desperate
for foster homes. The lists of kids awaiting adoption are painfully long. We
need stable homes in which kids are cared for, fed, clothed, encouraged, loved.
These are the priorities, not the gender composition of the responsible adults
in the home.
17. Does the end and purpose of marriage point
to something more than an adult’s emotional and sexual fulfillment?
Yes.
18. How would you define marriage?
The loving, grace-filled, mutually respectful covenant
relationship between two adults in which they make sacred vows to be life
partners for ever, no matter what happens.
19. Do you think close family members should be
allowed to get married?
No.
20. Should marriage be limited to only two
people?
Yes.
21. On what basis, if any, would you prevent
consenting adults of any relation and of any number from getting married?
Asked and answered.
22. Should there be an age requirement in this
country for obtaining a marriage license?
Yes.
23. Does equality entail that anyone wanting to
be married should be able to have any meaningful relationship defined as
marriage?
No.
24. If not, why not?
Asked and answered - close family members, age, more than two.
25. Should your brothers and sisters in Christ
who disagree with homosexual practice be allowed to exercise their religious
beliefs without fear of punishment, retribution, or coercion?
Yes. And yet here I will add that discrimination is not a
religious belief. It is discrimination. Unless you are forming a new religion,
or distorting an existing one.
26. Will you speak up for your fellow Christians
when their jobs, their accreditation, their reputation, and their freedoms are
threatened because of this issue?
Yes.
27. Will you speak out against shaming and
bullying of all kinds, whether against gays and lesbians or against
Evangelicals and Catholics?
Yes. And gay Evangelicals, and lesbian Catholics, and every
possible combination thereof.
28. Since the evangelical church has often
failed to take unbiblical divorces and other sexual sins seriously, what steps
will you take to ensure that gay marriages are healthy and accord with
Scriptural principles?
A curious question, with a curious term: “unbiblical divorces.” (Are
there “biblical divorces?”) And I’m not sure I agree with the premise that the
church doesn’t take divorce seriously.
Still, in response to the substance of the question, I’ll say: the
same steps I take to ensure that EVERY marriage is healthy and in accord with
Scriptural principles. As a pastor I do pre-marital counseling in which we talk
about the issues that so frequently arise in marriages, trying to anticipate
issues and equip the couple to deal with them. And when married couples come to
me with problems to talk about them, we often discover that the problem isn’t
related to the content itself, but rather in the way they are communicating.
29. Should gay couples in open relationships be
subject to church discipline?
I’m sorry, but this question needs a lot more information for me
to be able to answer it. I don’t want to assume that I know what you are
talking about.
30. Is it a sin for LGBT persons to engage in
sexual activity outside of marriage?
Yes.
31. What will open and affirming churches do to
speak prophetically against divorce, fornication, pornography, and adultery
wherever they are found?
Well, that’s a big question. I’m not responsible for every
church’s prophetic action, of course. But I’m assuming that they will continue
to do what they are already doing? You stumped me on this one, dude!
32. If “love wins,” how would you define love?
To love someone is “to desire and pursue their happiness as
sincerely and steadily as your own.” That’s one way that John Wesley defined
love, and it is very meaningful to me.
33. What verses would you use to establish that
definition?
Oh my goodness there are so many! One of the clear overarching
themes of all Scripture is the love of God and the loving response of humanity,
created in God’s image, and called to care for one another and all of creation
in loving acts. Genesis 1. Psalm 103. Micah 6. Matthew 25. John 15. 1
Corinthians 13. 1 John 4. It goes on and on!
34. How should obedience to God’s commands shape
our understanding of love?
Obeying God’s command is liberating. Obedience to God sets us free
to love as Christ loves - unconditionally and in abundance. We could never love
as Christ loves on our own; God’s grace equips and empowers us to do so.
35. Do you believe it is possible to love someone
and disagree with important decisions they make?
Yes.
36. If supporting gay marriage is a change for
you, has anything else changed in your understanding of faith?
It isn’t a change for me, however I should say that a lot of
things have changed over my 44 years of life with regard to how I understand
God. I appreciate what Paul has to say on the matter, when he talks about
followers of Jesus maturing in their faith. Or John Wesley’s teaching about
sanctification, or growing closer and closer to God, deepening our knowledge
and love of Christ as we practice our faith.
37. As an evangelical, how has your support for
gay marriage helped you become more passionate about traditional evangelical
distinctives like a focus on being born again, the substitutionary sacrifice of
Christ on the cross, the total trustworthiness of the Bible, and the urgent
need to evangelize the lost?
You are not defining “evangelical” the same way I do. I suppose
you would therefore want to say that one of us is “wrong.” But again, I don’t
see it that way; we’re just different. I am an evangelical because I believe
with all my heart that an individual’s personal relationship with God through
Jesus Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit is vitally important. The particular
doctrines you mention are a part of what I know as “fundamentalism,” which is a
very different thing than being evangelical.
38. What open and affirming churches would you
point to where people are being converted to orthodox Christianity, sinners are
being warned of judgment and called to repentance, and missionaries are being
sent out to plant churches among unreached peoples?
Well, as a pastor I am not really familiar with a bunch of other
churches. But I can say that I rarely “warn” people in my sermons; I guess I
don’t really see sermons as vehicles of warning, more as proclamations of the
good news. We include prayers of repentance and calls to discipleship in every
service, and our Conference is planting churches all the time. But I don’t know
your qualifications for the designation of “open and affirming,” so I’m not
sure if I’m answering your question directly.
39. Do you hope to be more committed to the
church, more committed to Christ, and more committed to the Scriptures in the
years ahead?
Yes.
40. When Paul at the end of Romans 1 rebukes
“those who practice such things” and those who “give approval to those who
practice them,” what sins do you think he has in mind?
As I said in my answer to question 8 above, chapter one of Romans
really sets up the rest of the book. The “such things” are listed by Paul in
the verses that precede, and each illuminate the sin of idolatry, or not
acknowledging God as the ultimate authority in life. But you really can’t just
read chapter one of the book and then stop, can you? There’s a lot more to the
story; there are 15 more chapters to the book!
I would ask a few questions of my own, in particular for
Christians who oppose marriage equality:
41. If a gay couple moved in next door to you, what would it
change about your own marriage? If they had kids, how would it directly impact
your parenting style?
42. If your marriage or your parenting would change in reaction to
the proximity of a gay couple, to what do you ascribe the power that one couple
has over you?
43. What are the practical implications in your life of the
Scriptural claim that “in Christ there is … no male or female, for all are one
in Christ Jesus?”
44. You likely know the story in which Jesus says to an angry
crowd, “Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.” How do you live
out this Christian teaching in your life?
45. Matthew 7:12 is known as the “Golden Rule.” Why do you suppose
these words are so universally known?
46. How is using the Bible against LGBT people different than
using the Bible to promote slavery? How is it similar?
47. Should divorcees who do not believe divorce is a sin be
allowed to remarry? What Scriptures do you use to support your belief?
48. What Scriptures do you cite to support your belief that people
of various races are permitted to marry?
49. How do you hope your grandchildren remember you, especially when
they think about your religious beliefs?
50. The numbers on the decline of the church in the world are
alarming. What might be done to spread God’s love even wider, so that the
church truly can be the body of Christ in all its wonder and glory?
There are a couple of other responses to the 40 questions out
there, and I encourage you to check them out. These are mine, and if you made
it all the way to this paragraph, big time props.
I don’t know if answering these questions does anyone any good.
But it did some good for me. I don’t really think anything new has been offered
in the conversation around homosexuality for a number of years. To many people
it feels like just going around and around in circles.
But injustice and discrimination is wrong, no matter what. And
until there is true justice, we have some things we need to do. And in order to
get those things done, we have some things we need to discuss. So asking and
answering questions is a necessary means to the end of justice for all of God’s
people.
